Conversation With Two JWs-Dealing With the Watchtower Mindset

anne marie

Conversing with two different JWs on YouTube; the following is both a rendition and an example of their Watchtower Mindset…In June of 2010, I watched the video of an adorable little boy giving his first talk at age three at the Kingdom Hall on YouTube.  After I made a comment, I ended up having two conversations with two different Watchtower members.

Some of the content is out of sequence, as is what can happen when people are “talking” back and forth on-line; some postings are not in actual order as spoken.

I have decided to post the following actual, verbatim conversations (with added editing where necessary) as an example of trying to “witness” to a JW, and to acknowledge both the frustration of dealing with their mindset of “circular reasoning,” and the real sincerity of the loyal members of the Watchtower Organization. (Identities of JWs have been completely omitted.)

Answer to question of what denomination I belong to…out of sequence

I am not of any particular “denomination,” but I did really get into Bible Study & was truly shocked to find that all I’d been taught as “truth” was not “truth,” & that the Christian core beliefs that I’d been taught that were “lies from Satan” were actually scriptural; these teachings are all right there in the Bible. As I am moved in my heart to help any JW who may be searching, or any ex JW who may want to know, I try to help them with the NWT, their own Bible, so they’ll “see.”

(The following is the first comment I made regarding the three-year-old giving his first talk from the podium as seen on YouTube.)

This little love is just too precious for words, and I am sure that his parents, and everyone in the congregation, was bursting with pride to see their young one “growing in Jehovah”; unfortunately, one day, this bright little fellow will start to think, and to ask questions, and then his proud parents might not be so proud. The JWs are generally very loving people…just trying to serve God, but deceived.

JW Female responds

Deceived, Really? Many are coming up with statements like yours when the fact is that the Witnesses are fulfilling two main bible Prophecies daily. One has to do with Peace Micah 4:3 and the other has to do with Preaching the Good News of the Kingdom Matthew 24:14. When you show another group of people who are doing that then tell me who is being deceived. Everyday people are being given the choice and when that choice is gone – Then they will want in but won’t be able.

I respond

Of course I understand how you feel, completely!! Don’t you know that I spent years thinking just as you? believed just as you? was fiercely loyal to the Almighty Tower, just as you? & believed that ONLY the Watchtower had it right? just like you? that ONLY through the Watchtower could I know God’s truth? that only by being in the Watchtower could I have “hope” of life? just like you? So what has changed my mind? & the minds of thousands of others? What if the Bible is right, & the Watchtower is wrong??

JW Female responds

The two prophecies are still being fulfilled; And there is no getting around that. I have been over all the reasons before. For those who are looking for perfection as being the Truth; won’t find it. If the truth equaled perfection then all would be a part of it. And that would not be a narrow gate as Jesus foretold. Thousands are leaving and going where? To Churches that don’t have unity, agreement and Peace! Worldwide.

I respond

Who said anything about “looking for PERFECTION” as being the hallmark of truth?? I just think that one has a right to expect that any teachers claiming to be THE truth should be actually teaching TRUTH, which does not have to be “rearranged,” or “recycled,” or be later “explained” as being a “mistake” made by “imperfect men.”

If one believes Jesus’ saying at John 14:6, “I am THE WAY, and THE TRUTH…” then one might ask oneself whom to believe…is Jesus now a LIAR? I believe the Bible is THE truth, not changing “man.”

JW Female responds

No, Jesus is not a liar, and you know full well that he also said that he would leave his flock in the care of a faithful slave (Matthew 24:45) And I ask you to search till your heart is content to find that slave. When you find that Slave ask the questions: What are the fruits produced by that slave? (Matt 7:20) Does that group fulfill scriptures such as :Speaking in agreement (1Cor 1:10); and are they telling people about Gods name? (Malachi 1:11) Who is?

I respond

Hi. I understand your feelings…I truly do. I only ask that those in any religion or organization not be afraid to check out the information available. I, and so many others, wish that we knew then what we so painfully know now, because the choices we make can impact us, & our loved ones, for the rest of our (& their) lives.

1) “Speaking in agreement” does not mean “enforced conformity,” or, “Don’t check out information,” or, “We will do your thinking for you.”

And as looking for the “fruits” of the leaders of the Watchtower…the “Slave”…well, with over fifty years of memory at my disposal, I would have to say that I would not want to mindlessly “swallow” any of that “fruit,” nor would I wish to stake my life on it, or the lives of my innocent children…which, unfortunately, I already did; much to my terrible and sad regret, knowing what I now know.

2) I remember the scripture at Matthew 24:45, & if I remember correctly, that scripture was pointing out that that “slave” had turned “evil” because he had allowed the power he’d been entrusted with to corrupt him. Why does the Watchtower only point to HALF of a scriptural  passage & then use it to “give themselves power over the flock,” & ignore the rest, just because it doesn’t suit their purpose?  How does that scripture give them the right to claim “authority from God” over His people just because they can?? because they SAY so??

Also, please recall that there are TWO “good news.” Christians follow the “good news about the Christ.”  (Gal. 1: 6-8)

JW Female responds

That scripture says that “If” ever That Evil slave should say “My master is delaying” and start to beat his fellow slaves”… Now tell me has the Watchtower proclaimed with Zeal that we are living in the last days? or have they said “Don’t worry, everyone, we are not living in the last days”? And I notice that anyone I talk to on here never comes up with where else to go. And nobody is ever able to point out anyone else that is a Worldwide Brotherhood that fulfills Scriptures.

I respond

I can see your point. I re read the entire scenario of Matt. 24 & there, Jesus is telling His followers the signs of the coming Great Tribulation, & Jesus’ return was foretold. I find it odd, though, that the “slave” continues to claim “authority from God” over His people when this “authority,” as I remember the teaching, was to only be until Jesus’ return.

So why is it that they still continue to claim “authority from God” over His people when they claim that Jesus has already returned? And if He has returned, as the Watchtower has claimed He did for nearly 100 yrs, “invisibly,” then where is He?

JW Female responds

Wow, okay you gave me a lot to respond to here. God would not have people randomly going here and there when the Bible clearly states that True Worshippers are to 1)Speak in agreement; 2)Incite each other to love and fine works; 3)Preach the message of the kingdom until the End; 4) Become One Flock & One Shepard; 5) Be recognized by their Fruits; 6)Learn War no More; These things simply can not be ignored. And who else loves Jehovah’s Name? Really now tell us who else?

I respond

Watchtower reasoning always seems to be “circular”; going from one thing to another, when  the Bible is “The Truth,” & Jesus is “The Truth.” (John 17:17; 14:6)

Jesus said that worshipers would worship “with spirit & TRUTH” (John 4:24).

Again, “speaking in agreement” does not mean “forced conformity,” but that the Christian congregation would come together as one to follow Jesus from their various backgrounds & beliefs…and “fruits of the Spirit” are not “works of the flesh…”

JW Female responds

The Fruitage of the Spirit is Love, Joy, Peace, Long-Suffering, Kindness, Goodness, Faith, Mildness, Self-Control. Tell me what other Christian brotherhood has this worldwide. I can be Catholic, Baptist, and whatever else and go to war and yet still be a Christian. And that flys in the face of what the bible teaches about Christians. The truth is you can not name another Christian Group that fulfills this worldwide. If you can, why not just do it?

And that Church is a worldwide Christian Brotherhood. I know of no others that use Jehovah’s name. Where is the preaching of the good news of the kingdom worldwide? That is the work Jesus set his disciples out to do and he tells them to continue right to the end. Like I said earlier; You left too soon. You can not replace what is being done anywhere else. To have a worldwide brotherhood united by Peace takes Jehovah’s Spirit to accomplish.

I respond

You are so articulate, & you bring up some very good points!! Yes, the Fruitage of the Spirit is as you stated, but this “fruit” is of God’s Holy Spirit, which Jesus promised would be given to each one who accepted the benefits of His sacrifice…& these “fruits” are a RESULT of God’s Holy Spirit coming into us to mingle with our own spirit, or as “Christ IN us,” & not due to any human “works” of the flesh; that’s what the Mosaic Law taught us…that we NEEDED Jesus’ sacrifice to set us free from law, NOT to be enslaved, again!

(Gal.1: 6-8; 2: 4-6, 16,20- 21; 3: 21- 27; 4: 16; 5: 1, 4, 16, 18; Ephes. 1:9-10, 13- 14)

I belong to a loving Christian Fellowship, & after all that I’d heard at the Kingdom Hall about “worldly churches” teaching “lies from Satan,” I was surprised to find that, at least in my church’s case, this is not so; no, but each and every sermon is from the Bible; from what God’s Word actually says. And we sing praises to Jehovah God &  Jesus…I hadn’t known that other religions teach of Jehovah God’s love. But I find it refreshing to only hear God’s Word, & not some “man’s interpretation” of it.

There are so many Christians that are preaching the gospel, or “good news about the Christ” all over the world, (2 Cor. 9:13), and these ministries have been going on long before Russell ever established the WTBS.

Paul had warned Christians that we were to be very careful (Galatians 1:6-12). Jesus said that we would be witnesses of HIM (Acts 1:8). And Paul sadly warned us, “I am afraid that somehow…your minds might be corrupted away from …the Christ.”   (2Cor. 1:3, 4; 13-15; 20-23)

JW Female responds

Well, then, where are they??  I have never met one. I have on two occasions in my entire life been approached by Mormons preaching a different good news entirely. I have yet to be approached by someone telling of the Good News of the Kingdom of God. Are they united? No. Do they make a Peaceful Brotherhood? No. And what are their names? And you know full well that what we do is a Witness to Jesus. Who goes around telling people that Jesus is their annointed King Worldwide?

I respond

In a nutshell, Jesus did not die to “give us religion,” nor to have us become, again, “enslaved” by man and his religion, or doctrines, or “laws.”

Please see Galatians 2:4, 5; 20-21; 3:8, 10, 13, 21, 22

Paul explains so well our new position in front of God…that Christ set us free to be led, now, by Holy Spirit; that we are no longer under “law,” because we have been set free.

At Galatians 5:4 Paul says, “You are parted from Christ, whoever you are that try to be declared righteous through law; you have fallen away from His undeserved kindness (grace).”

Paul continues this thought at Ephesians 1:17-18, “that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the accurate knowledge of Him…that you may know what is the hope to which He called you…”

Paul goes on to say at Esphesians 2:4-13, “But God…for His great love with which He loved us, made us alive together with the Christ, even when we were dead in trespasses…by undeserved kindness (grace) YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED…you have been saved through faith, and this is not owing to you, IT IS GOD’S GIFT…it is NOT OWING TO WORKS, in order that no man should have grounds for boasting…Christ is our peace.”

Paul asked the question to the religious leaders of his day, “Well, then, have I become your enemy because I tell you the truth?” (Gal.4:16)

His words remind me of how the rank-and-file of the Watchtower are taught that ex members who “tell the truth” are now to be seen as “enemies” of God; as “evil apostates.”  It is heartbreaking.

You see, the issue was never about “religion,” but the issue was about having a RELATIONSHIP with Jehovah God. Adam & Eve messed that up for us, but from the beginning, God revealed that He had a plan to fix it, & that arrangement to “fix it” was to be through His son. The Mosaic Law was “fleshly,” based upon “works of the flesh,” in that it served to show us that no human could ever succeed in EARNING everlasting life, nor could one ever EARN the complete forgiveness of his sins.

Jesus freed us from LAW based on “trying to earn” life & forgiveness of sins so that we could be washed clean by His blood, & to then be able to stand “unblemished in His sight” before God as an adopted child, free to come to Him.

That is why the Temple Curtain tore down right at Jesus’ death!!

Again, the “issue” was never about “religion,” but was about having a “clean standing” before God; about having a one-on-one RELATIONSHIP with God…no longer needing some “man,” or “ritual” standing between us and Jehovah. That is why Jesus said, “It is finished!” & why the Temple Curtain, 12ft high, which divided the Holy from the Most Holy was torn from TOP to bottom…Jehovah tore the curtain…the curtain that was the symbol of the barrier between God & man…thus showing that now, at last, by means of Jesus’ freely shed innocent blood, man could come to Jehovah as an adopted child, free from the blemish of inherited sin, no longer having to rely upon “works of the flesh” in order to be acceptable to Jehovah God.  (John 3:17; 1 Thess.4:8)

Paul so clearly points out in the book of Galatians that we, as Christians, are NOT to be following “man,” or any “religion,” or any “organization,” but that we are to be following Christ.

The Watchtower wants man to follow THEM, but we are to follow CHRIST!

“The word, “Christian,” means, “Christ In,” or, “Christ in us,” which agrees with Jesus’ promise of the Holy Spirit of Jehovah & Jesus mingling with ours upon our humble acceptance of Jesus’ sacrifice for all of us.  Once we have been “adopted” into Jehovah’s family as His child, He doesn’t take it back…we are “sealed.”

The Watchtower’s own Bible translation puts it this way at Ephesians 1: 4-14:

“Just as He chose us in (union with) Him before the founding of the world…for He foreordained us to the adoption through Jesus Christ as sons to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will…by means of Him we have the release by ransom of the blood of that one, yes, the forgiveness of our trespasses…that He made known to us the SACRED SECRET of His will…according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself…namely, to gather all things together again in the Christ…yes, in Him…you heard the word of truth, THE GOOD NEWS ABOUT YOUR SALVATION.

“By means of Him also, after you believed, you were SEALED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT, which is a token in advance of our inheritance, for the purpose of releasing by a ransom God’s own possession, to His glorious praise.”

We cannot EARN what He so lovingly and so freely gave us…that would be a “slap in the face”; as if we are telling God, “Thanks, but I believe that I have to work hard to earn your gift on my own; I don’t believe that Christ’s sacrifice is good enough for me.” But it is enough!!  Jesus’ freely shed and innocent blood was the highest price that could have been paid, and it IS enough!!  (Gal.1:7,8,10,11; Gal. 2:21)  All we have to do is to be willing to humbly and gratefully accept it…

Paul so clearly warns Christians of his day to “stand fast, and do not let yourselves be confined again in yoke of slavery.” (Gal.2:21)

Further, Paul says at Gal. 2:4, 5, “But because of false brothers brought in quietly to spy upon our freedom which we have in (union with) Christ Jesus, that they might completely enslave us…to these we did not yield by way of submission, no, not for an hour, in order that the truth of the good news (about the Christ) might continue with you.”

(See Ro. 15:19; 2Cor. 2:12; 4:4; 9:13; 10:14; Gal. 1:6-7)

The good news about salvation through Christ is for all of us!!  ALL of us!!

You asked me, “Where are they?” Why, they are all over!!

That is why the Watchtower does not allow their members to talk to Christians, or to listen to God’s Plan of Salvation through Christ, nor will they allow any Christian to show a Jehovah’s Witness IN THEIR OWN TRANSLATION of the Bible the very core of the Christian faith.

So many JWs have left or have been kicked out (disfellowshipped) as their punishment for finding out the truth as is so clearly taught in the scriptures, and this truth can be clearly “seen” when not trying to read the scriptures through “Watchtower Glasses.”

God’s Word is clear, & does not need “man” to interpret His Word, but by Holy Spirit, they “see”…if they want to.  (Matt.7:7-11)

Oh! I’m so sorry!! I forgot the point you made about others preaching about God’s Kingdom.

Remember that Christians are to preach “the good news about the Christ” (Gal.1:6-8).

The establishment of God’s Kingdom, which is to be restored to the earth, has to do with Israel…remember that Jehovah said that He would not leave His people entirely? The 144,000 are of literal Jewish heritage, chosen especially to preach to Jews, who rejected their own king. As “Gentile” followers of Christ, already Christians, we are not of that “good news,” or of that number.  (Please read Romans chapters 9-11 & Rev. 7 & 14: 3-4)

According to Galatians and Ephesains, no Christian needs to be “directed” from an “organized” “Control Center” in order to tell others of their faith in God’s plan of salvation through Christ. It is all written in God’s Word.

Just because an organization, or religion, has hundreds of thousands of followers all over the world, & has lots of money & power, & has been around for over 120yrs, it doesn’t mean that they are OF God, or that they, alone, speak for God; or that only THEY have “the truth”; even Islam & the Mormons & the Catholics can claim that!! We need God’s Word to guide us through His Holy Spirit. (Luke 12: 12)

Yes, Jesus does say at John 10:14, 16, 27, “I am the fine shepherd, & I know my sheep & my sheep know me. And I have other sheep which are not of this fold…& they will listen to my voice, & they will become one flock, one shepherd. My sheep listen to MY voice, & I know them, & they follow me.” Jesus also said, “You are searching the scriptures because you think that by means of them you will have everlasting life… yet you do not want to come to me that you may HAVE  life.” John 5: 39

JW Female responds

Do you notice how I am not using the Scriptures much with you? You already know the Flock that Jesus is talking about. You have not answered any questions. So according to you, a “Christian” simply finds a church and goes from there. No worldwide unity of Peace is found anywhere but at the Mountain Of Jehovah. Otherwise you could name one.

I respond

Yes, there are problems within ANY religion or organization of man because MAN is imperfect!! That is why it is so important that each one of us, as individuals, choose to listen (or not) to what Jehovah God & His son, our Savior & Lord & King, have already told us. The WTBS created the “true religion” issue so that they could then point to THEMSELVES as “the WAY,” & “the TRUTH, & “the LIFE,” when we should be looking to God’s Word & to His Son’s Word…John 14:6; John 8: 31-36; Ro. 10:2-4, 9

I am sorry, but I don’t know which “flock” that you say that Jesus is talking about…I only know that He said that He had “other sheep which are not of this fold (those that already followed Him)…& they will become one flock.” (John 10:16) And at Ephesians 4:4-6 Paul said that there was “one body…one spirit…one hope…one Lord, one faith…one God & Father of all persons…who is…through all & in all.”

Or are you referring to the 144,000 that the WBTS speaks of as the “anointed”?

JW Female responds

You are stating the Truth here – They will become “One” Flock; Paul said there is One Body, One Spirit, One Hope, One Lord, One Faith, One God and Father of all persons… And the road is Narrow and Cramped, said Jesus. The road you are on at present is not narrow and cramped, it is broad and spacious. You have joined yourself  with “Christians” who don’t even believe that Jehovah is God. Many who don’t even want to know his name.

I respond

Well, in response to your claim that “many Christians don’t even want to know His name,” (God’s name), I have to say that I believe you get this idea from the WTBS, as I know that they attack Christians & their beliefs often. But personally, I have never met, nor have I ever heard of, any Christian who did not want to know God’s name, or who didn’t believe He was God.  And please remember that at the time that the statement was made about “the road being narrow and cramped,” it was in the very dangerous beginnings of the Christian Faith…which had NOTHING to do with the future Watchtower Organization.

I wish you could research what you say you believe. But don’t worry about it.

JW Female responds

You have not come up with an answer to my scriptures that point to the Fruits that the True followers of Christ would produce. In fact “Nobody” ever does. Love, Peace, Joy, Speaking in agreement, Called by Jehovah’s name, A worldwide brotherhood preaching the Good news of the kingdom. And I have personal experience as to how people feel about Gods name. Disinterest is the best word to describe the reaction. And Elohim and Adonai are titles not names. You know the difference.

I respond

Most Christians DO exhibit the Fruits of the Holy Spirit; perhaps it is that you are not closely familiar with Christians that you are not aware of this. And “followers of Christ” are not called by “Jehovah’s name,” but by the name of “Christians,” as Jesus told His followers at Acts 1:8, “…and you will be witnesses of me both in Jerusalem and in all Judea, & to the most distant part of the earth,” & this is true. People may not show much concern about the name, Jehovah…

Christians may not show much concern about God’s name because perhaps they are MORE concerned with the POINT of being a follower of Christ, as is Jehovah God’s arrangement. As Jesus said to the religious leaders of “God’s Organization” of His day, “Blind guides, who strain out the gnat but gulp down the camel.” (Matt.23:24)

And calling JWs by God’s name was Rutherford’s way of instilling new excitement in members, as so many were leaving due to unfulfilled prophecies, & to instill “pride” in belonging to “Jehovah’s” organization, & to take the focus off of salvation in Jesus, which would successfully separate them from other Christians.

Most JWs of today do not know that early Watchtower members were Christians; believing in their salvation through Christ.  It was only later, after Rutherford had worked so hard to turn the Watchtower around (getting rid of anyone who refused to go along with him) that he managed to slowly convince the loyal followers that “salvation,” or the “hope” of salvation, lay in loyalty to the Watchtower, “Jehovah’s” organization.

Yes, you are right! Elohim & Adonai ARE titles. I was only pointing out that a monk in the 1400s, I believe, used vowels from these titles that referred to God & inserted them into the Tetragramaton YHWH to have a name for God, & as no one knows exactly what God’s “name” is, this monk’s idea (YeHoWaH) has become “Jehovah,” the accepted name of Almighty God. And again, the “world wide brotherhood” is to be preaching “the good new about the Christ”

(Acts 5:42 Ro. 1:9; 3:22; Ro. 5:5,-11)  Don’t worry about it.  It’s all ok

I didn’t say that we are not “in the last days,” no, but only that I find it sad & misleading that the WT points to THEMSELVES as the only way to be right with God; to THEMSELVES as the only way to know God’s TRUTH; & to THEMSELVES as the only way to have any hope of everlasting life, when Jesus clearly says at John 14:6, that HE is “the way,” & that HE is “the TRUTH,” & that HE is “the life.”

Jesus died for us, and I believe His words in the Bible over any “man,” or religion.

Many JWs hear in their Kingdom Halls that in no other place, or religion, will they find “pure truth,” but isn’t God’s own Holy Word “the truth”? (John 17:17) Did Jehovah, or Jesus, ever teach that in order to know what God’s Word means, imperfect men would have to rise up to write magazines & books & to preach doctrines & explanations in order for one to “properly understand” His truth? and that these very ones would later, over & over again, have to “rearrange” THE TRUTH, calling it “New Light” each time??

Ask yourself, “Is God a good communicator?” “Can we trust Him & and what His Word says?”

And as to the “fruits” that you asked that I look for, I can only “see” what my experience with the Watchtower has shown me: the pain and the damage that ignorance & arrogance & close-mindedness & blind obedience can cause. I just love “truth”;  I always have, & I hate lies & “cover-ups.”

I know what it’s like to not know what I didn’t know that I didn’t know, and I just try to tell the truth as I know it now. It’s all in the scriptures; really. It’s all there. God bless you!!!”

JW Female responds

The fruitage that would be the Factor for everyone to see are Peace & Love. There is no way that any Religion with imperfect humans is going to produce perfection. And yes, I remember what you stated about perfection earlier. But that is what many people speaking against the witnesses are asking witnesses to be. If it were so perfect everyone would be a witness. Jesus said true christians would have Love for one another. Jehovah’s Witnesses have that worldwide. Nobody else does.

I respond

I am not “speaking ‘against’ the witnesses,” but I am speaking up for the truth of God.

I don’t understand why you keep bringing up “perfection.” I have never heard anyone who used to be in the WT complain about anyone not being “perfect,” or that the WT was not “perfect”; we all know we are not perfect.

The issue that is more relevant to consider is that when any POWER & AUTHORITY over others tells their followers that they MUST OBEY them as the “virtual voice of God,” while at the same time causing so much stress & trouble & confusion…altering “truth” when the “old truth” or “old light” no longer “works,” & then later, when it is so obvious that the leaders of the Watchtower “made a mistake” that they must “humbly” claim that “they’re just imperfect men”…we should ask ourself, “Well, which is it?? Are they REALLY the ‘virtual voice of Almighty God,’ His ‘channel’? or are they just ‘imperfect men’??”

If we really love truth, & if we really love God, & if we really care about “accurate knowledge” as the Beorean’s did at Acts 17:11, we will not fear to ask ourselves this question, nor will we fear to ‘examine the scriptures as to whether these things are so.’

I know that you believe that “nobody else” has “love for one another” as “true” Christians are supposed to have, but again, that is WTBS talk…a “Christian” is a “Christian”; one who believes in salvation through Christ, & one who follows Jesus as their Lord & Shepherd.

Jehovah’s Witnesses are led to believe that only they have “real love” among themselves when that very “love” is entirely conditional upon their “standing” in the organization. One is not a “true” Christian because they belong to a certain religion. Each Christian is at a different stage of personal growth, and thus, each will have their own faults.

JW Female responds

And Annemarie, when I said that you left to soon, I meant it.

The truth of the matter is that “Christians” are not united. The fact that there are around 38,000 denominations proves that “Christians” are not united. Do I worship the same God that the Catholics do? Do you? I worship Jehovah and I tell people that Jesus is Jehovah’s Son, and that the only hope for mankind is Gods Kingdom. Now how many Christians believe that? Not many.”

I respond

Many families are different from other families due to cultural backgrounds, & also, over time, traditions and rituals of man have come into play in their way of serving God, but the core beliefs of Christianity remain the same as is outlined in the scriptures that I have shared with you.

Jehovah pointed us to His Son…that was God’s plan, not mine…& just as families all over the world are different, that doesn’t mean that core family values & structure aren’t the same. And in the same line of thought, just because over hundreds of years different variations of the Christian Faith have arisen, this does not mean that the Watchtower Organization is THE ONE AND ONLY “TRUTH.”

Remember that the early Christians did not have a Bible; many separate groups had just one or only a few of the many writings of Jesus’ apostles & disciples; studying what writings they had which formed the basis of the many Christian Churches that we know today.

JW Female responds

“Core” family structure, Annemarie? Jehovah’s People come from all walks of life and cultural backgrounds with various traditions and superstitions, but once they learn the Truth, what happens? They drop those traditions and superstitions that do not line up with Christianity as is in the Bible. “Christendom,” which you are now apart of, does not have that.( Micah 4:1-5)

I respond

I was only trying to think of a metaphor to help explain why there are so many different Christian religions; even Christians in Paul’s day had issues & arguments & differing views, but they weren’t condemned for this, rather, if I remember correctly, Paul told them to remember their faith, & to abstain from idols & fornication & from blood…”adding no further burden to you,” as I recall?? All families (hopefully) love their children, & all want the same things, and though they may be “different,” they have the same basic core beliefs and wants in life.

JW Female responds

I’ll tell you a true story that is very revealing. When I first heard the name Jehovah from a witness who stopped by back in 1986, I learned about the name Jehovah. I told my mom about it and she told me that she knew about it, and that Hallelujah meant “Praise Jah.” I did not continue studying and went into the service. Later, when I did fully study and learn about the “Truth,” I asked my Mom if she knew what Hallelujah meant, and she said Praise ye the LORD. The Heart, Annemarie.

I respond

Yes! And I can imagine how exciting it was to know that God has a name; but He has many names; & the only name that I can recall that God called Himself was “I AM,” which says a lot. There is also “Elohim,” & “Adhonay”; I checked the society’s old Aid To Bible Understanding book & looked it up. Also, YHWH has been used to make “Jehovah,” inserting vowels from both terms: Ya Ho WaH. Jehovah is the accepted name of God, but has nothing to do with “religion.” (No more room!!)

Hi,!! I need to correct myself on the Tetragrammaton…that’s what I get for writing when I’m so tired!! The monk in the 1400s (maybe it was the 14th CENTURY), used the vowels from “Elohim,” and “Adonay” as Ye Ho WaH. Sorry about that!!!

JW Female responds

No need to correct yourself Annemarie, but you have regressed. The name “Jehovah” is the source for many other bible names. Names like John, Jedidiah, Jehiah, Jehoash, Jehoiakim, Jehoshaphat, Jehu, Jekamiah, Jeremiah, Jeremy, Jerijah, Jesaiah, Jesiah, And that Name that everyone knows very well “JESUS.” And there are many more. So the reason Jehovah is used as God’s Personal name is because it is the name used to make all the other names we use like Jesus.

I respond

Oh!! Well, that makes a lot of sense!! I didn’t know that; I only remember finding out about the origin of the name, “Jehovah,” and how and why the monk came up with it, but what you say does make sense to me. Do you have any sources that I could look at?? (Those are really great names, too!!)

JW Female responds

The New Strong’s complete Dictionary of Bible Words. And I will send you a message in your mail of an on-line source, also.

I respond

I’ve heard of that Dictionary! My mom says it’s a really good source of information, & I need all the information that I can get my hands on…I had meant many years ago to get that dictionary…thank you so much for your generosity. That offer was very thoughtful of you!

(At this point, a JW Male jumped into the conversation…I, at first, thought him to be a female from his screen name.)

JW Male asks

May I ask what denomination you are, annemarie?

I respond to JW Male

Hi, there!  I don’t belong to a “denomination,” but I do belong to a loving Christian Fellowship…& I can tell you that it’s SO GREAT to not worry about gossip, or about having to put on a “theocratic” or “spiritual face” so that I will not be judged as “weak,” or to worry that I might be “reported to the elders,” or be hauled before a secret “committee” to be grilled on some “infraction of some rule,” no, but I am truly free to allow God & His Holy Spirit to guide me in my life! And I am so very grateful for that!!  I can “breathe”!!

JW Male responds

If you think that gossip exists only in the JWs, you are MISTAKEN!  Gossip exists anywhere there are 3 people or more. The first century Christian congregation was full of gossip, & if you read the Bible you would know that. That’s why it’s written “you must put up with one another.” Do you really think that your new “fellowship” is better than the first century congregation in that sense?

I respond to JW Male

I am not here to argue…truly. Please don’t feel that you need to defend the Watchtower…every JW seems so ready to rush to defend the Watchtower.

I only said that I am so glad that I don’t have to deal with the gossip anymore; I didn’t say that it “only exists in the Watchtower.” And whether or not gossip is as rampant as I recall is not the issue with me; it’s that I just want the JWs to be properly informed, & for the Watchtower to stop lying to them, but that’s never going to happen…

JW Male responds

Who’s arguing? Not me. All JWs are warriors, they defend THEIR beliefs, call them Watchtower teachings if you want, but once someone believes that teaching, they make it their own. I defend the teaching that truly fits with Gods word, unlike that false doctrine of a Trinity God. Our brothers are not perfect, but our fellowship cannot be compared. You know that deep inside. You keep pelting the WT, and yet I haven’t heard your “truth.”  LOL Doesn’t that tell you something?

I respond

Yes, I can see that I have lost my temper a bit, & that is wrong, & I am sorry…as I said before, sometimes I just get so tired of hearing the same “Watchtower Rhetoric” that I, too, once believed as THE truth.

Yes, you certainly are correct when you say that “once someone believes a teaching, they make it their own,” but with the WTBS, they teach one to understand the Bible “The Watchtower Way,” & “deep inside,” I DO know that that is true. And Fran, “my” truth is Biblical. You can even find “my” truth in your own Bible.

JW Male responds

“The Watchtower way”?? There is only one way, and it’s up to you to decide if what you are being taught is the truth. I BELIEVE that these brothers are being GUIDED by Jehovah, I don’t believe they are INSPIRED. They HAVE and WILL make mistakes. But they are honest and truly seek truth. There is NO OTHER group of people that even comes close to the unity we see in our organization.

I don’t believe because I have to; I believe because it makes sense.

I respond

Please know that I DO truly understand your heartfelt feelings…I have been just where you are at. I am not good with words; I need to work on that; I do tend to be blunt, & I am sorry.

Yes, I know that you “believe,” & I understand your loyalty…I am NOT trying to tell you to go anywhere else, it’s just that I feel strongly about God’s Word being taught as it was written. It always seems to come down to loyalty to the ORGANIZATION. And I know that “it makes sense”; of course it does; you are trained to think that way.

You say you believe that the brothers are NOT “inspired” by Jehovah, but that they ARE “guided” by Him?? Isn’t that pretty much the same thing? At least CLOSE?? It sounds to me as if the Watchtower Leaders are cleverly making sure that they have that much needed “wiggle room” when “truth” shows itself to not be so “true,” perhaps?? They HAVE changed or “rearranged” many basic “truths” that they used to teach the rank-and-file AS “truth.” I remember all the way back to 1960, and I still have much of their old literature.

So I ask you to consider this: If the leaders of the Watchtower are so honest, & if they are “guided” by God, why does their “truth” change??  And why are those who dare to point this out silenced?

Further, how do you REALLY know if Watchtower Doctrine “truly fits with God’s Word” when you are not allowed to compare their teachings with an unbiased Bible?

Would you consider a Bible translated by the Mormon’s to be “the most accurate” without first checking it against unbiased translations? I just wish that every JW could at least be fully informed, and not have their information sources censored by the very organization that they put all of their trust in…even to the point of death.

JW Male responds

“Unbiased bible”?? And what bible is that? All translations are criticized as “biased”. And for the record, I’ve never heard of us not being “allowed” to use other translations…that is a lie. I use them ALL THE TIME. There is no such thing as a “censored resource.” That’s another lie. The brothers simply warn and caution us. But never do they censor resources. In fact, they continuously teach us to do research. What is with all the misconceptions or lies?

I respond

For the first fifty plus years the WTBS relied upon the King James Version, but as Rutherford wanted complete control over the rank-and-file, he realized he could not have it while members still trusted in their salvation through Jesus’ sacrifice, so he slowly got rid of everything core to the Christian faith, which led to the “rewriting” of the Bible, which the WTBS released in its completion in 1961. It replaced the American Standard Bible that the WTBS had been using, & rewrote key scriptures re: Jesus. It’s true.

JW Male responds

Don’t act like you know what Rutherford wanted. The bible was not “rewritten,” instead, a new TRANSLATION was made that is much more accurate to the original languages. The King James is not an inspired translation, it’s not perfect, it has mistakes. Only Jehovah God can produce a perfect translation through inspiration. The NWT isn’t perfect, either, but it’s a lot better than those that “sell.” Yes, I’m talking about the same translation you claim to have learned the truth through.

I respond

I have been around the WTBS for a long time…I have met ex Bethel workers, an ex Governing Body member, an ex missionary, an ex District Overseer, a few ex Circuit Overseers, and several ex JW Elders. I have also done research on the Watchtower since the year 2000…WTBS members need to know their history, & this is why WTBS members are not to communicate with those who no longer view the WTBS as their spiritual authority; the rank-&-file must be controlled. It’s just like a big sales organization…the same tactics are used.  It’s all about the “hype,” & I never knew that until I was in sales & had to attend sales conventions; I was shocked that these sales conventions were so much like the assemblies that I had so faithfully attended.

How do you KNOW that the Watchtower’s translation is “most accurate”?? Isn’t it because that is what they tell you? Please check out the scriptures against their own Kingdom Interlinear…do you have one?

Of course, no Bible is without “mistakes,” but it’s the deliberate changing of  key scriptures re: Jehovah God’s Plan of Salvation through His Son that bothers me; the changing of the very key scriptures regarding Jesus that were changed so as to point people to follow The Watchtower instead of toward following Christ, as per God’s own arrangement. Remember Acts 17:11

JW Male responds

I believe it’s more accurate for many reasons, and the first reason is because it does not substitute Gods name.

All John 1:1 is saying is that Jesus was there at the beginning (a point in time) of something. THAT DOES NOT MEAN he never had a beginning. In the beginning of WW2, 123 was, that does not mean 123 never had a beginning.

Tell me, who was the word with??.. “God”? The word was with the Trinity??? The word, who is the Son, was with The Father, the Son and The Holy Spirit, now there are 2 Sons?

1. Proverbs says he was created.
2. Jesus is the Firstborn of all creation.

I respond

I get you!! That whole “Trinity” business had me good!! I remember praying to Jehovah about it because to me it just didn’t make any sense, & as I was praying, the thought came into my mind, “You understand the concept of cloning, don’t you?” & “Blam!!” I just saw in my mind how one cell divides into two, & it began to make sense, but it was only through praying for the Holy Spirit to “show me the truth…even if it goes against all I believe is the truth,” that I “got it”!!

JW Male responds

Sadly, your cell illustration is illogical, because now there are 2 cells, not 1. 1 split into 2, there is no longer 1 but 2. Don’t you see??

I respond

It is just what I “saw” in my mind in response to praying about it; God is not a “cell,” but as we humans tend to discount what we don’t understand because we are fleshly, this metaphor helped me to realize that I had no business telling God what He could and could not possibly do; I just shared what I felt that God had put into my mind that helped me to understand, because I am a very logical & analytical person, & I was so sure that I already knew the truth about God. Whew! I had a lot to learn, & a lot to “unlearn.”

JW Male responds

WE don’t say what God can and can’t do… the bible doesn’t teach what you are saying.  Jehovah IS. The bible teaches that God is one person. You should never say what God can and can’t do. Only say what the bible teaches.

I respond

Absolutely!! Exactly what I’ve been trying to say!!

Please remember that the concept of Jesus being a “created being” is not scriptural; there is no scripture in the Bible that teaches that Jesus was “created,” but that He is “begotten,” or “brought forth” from God. (John 8:42, 16: 28, 30; 17:8)

And the word WAS in Greek denotes “past, continuous action,” as, “In the beginning the Word ALWAYS was, & the Word was ALWAYS with God, & the Word was ALWAYS God.” What if you could project “your word” into an outward expression of yourself? Does that help?

JW Male responds

“because I have not spoken out of my own impulse, but the Father himself who sent me has given me a commandment as to what to tell and what to speak.” John 12:49…. This is why Jesus is the Word of God.

You haven’t told me who was the word was “with”?

I respond

John 1:1-2 says that The Word was with God. And, again, of course Jesus spoke according to what God wanted Him to speak…He Is “The Word of God.”

JW Male responds

It’s right in front of you and yet you don’t want to see it. The Word was WITH GOD. The very same God you say is made up of 3 persons (Father, Son and Holy Spirit). How can there be 2 “Sons”??

This verse is saying that Jesus was with Jehovah.

I respond

I don’t want to cause you to be upset; I am only doing my best to answer you the best that I can.

I never said that there were “2 sons,” but that when one reads the scriptures just as they are, they actually speak for themselves. Perhaps you are married, or have a child? Let’s say that you are Fran, & that you are also ‘daughter,” & also “wife,” & also “mother”; your parents would not know you as “mother,” but that still would be part of YOU. Like you as a “child” is still part of YOU. I’m trying, here!

JW Male responds

I’m not getting upset at all. I’m a man, so if I was a “son,” that’s simply what I am to a distinct group, in this case, to 2 people, not to all. Sorry, it’s a real bad illustration, no offense.

Please tell me how the Word (The Son) can be “with” God (Father, “SON” Holy Spirit). How can The “Son” be “with” the “Son”? Do you understand?

I respond

(Sorry! I didn’t realize that you were a man!) Why do you say, “The Son be with the Son”??

Hmm. How about this: “In the beginning was the child, & the child was with Fran, & the child WAS Fran.”??  The “child” is still YOU; your spirit, or the essence of you, is still YOU, & if you had the power to express yourself in the manner of “bringing forth” from yourself your own WORD into a now separate being, that would be how I understand the scripture at John 1:1-2, 14.

JW Male responds

You say that “God” is a triune God. You say “God” is made up of 3 persons. Person 1, The Father. Person 2, The Son. Person 3, The Holy Spirit.

The scripture says that the Word, who you say is Jesus, who is Person 2 The Son, was “WITH” “God,” the triune God. How can The Son be “with” the triune God? That would make the “word” a fourth person. Do you understand? Your illustrations suggests that Fran is made up of Fran, mom and child. How can child be with Fran, child and mom?

I respond

The “mom” part was when I thought you were female…sorry again!!

All I know is that the scriptures are plain. I began at Isaiah 43:10, & went from there. I saw many scriptures where Jehovah makes it CLEAR that HE is the only true God…no “little,” second “god,” but just one.

Can you picture Jehovah as ONE God, who is ALL things, & look at how Jesus is described as God’s WORD; see that “He is THE IMAGE of the invisible God,” (Col. 1: 15) & that He came in the flesh to represent God?

John 1:14 tells us that God’s Word, Jesus, “…became flesh and dwelt among us.”

JW Male responds

Anne, look. When the bible calls Jehovah the “only TRUE God,” it’s making a comparison with other “so-called TRUE Gods” which in reality are false gods. In other words, the scriptures are saying that Jehovah is the only TRUE “ton theos” or Jehovah is the only TRUE “THE God”.

Jehovah is the only True “ton theos”. Don’t you understand?

Answer me Anne, is God a “God of ‘false’ gods”?

Please answer me.

Here I respond to the JW Male’s claim that I lied when I said that the WTBS forbids research on the organization

Perhaps they have changed, but I doubt it. That’s like saying, “It’s their own choice to take blood,” & then you’re in trouble if you do, or, “Everyone is free to leave if they want,” & then you are disfellowshipped & your name is now “mud,” & you are shunned if you go against the blood teaching, or if you divorce an abusive mate & marry another…

Fran, if you asked an elder if it was ok for you to check out the WTBS’s core doctrinal teachings against, say, the International Version Bible, or the American Standard Bible, wouldn’t he then ask you WHY? & wouldn’t he then ask if  you have been listening to “apostates”? or looking at “apostate” literature or internet sites? and wouldn’t he ask if you are having doubts about the WTBS???  Wouldn’t he then ask if you believe that Jehovah is guiding His people through the WTBS??  Wouldn’t your LOYALTY to the Watchtower then be called into question?

I respond to JW Male’s question re: the Trinity teaching

Re: The Trinity: Are you referring to the WTBS’s teaching that Christians believe in a “Three-Headed God”? I used to believe that The Trinity Teaching was based upon the pagan Babylonian Three-Headed God, but that is not a Christian belief at all.

The scriptures are clear; there is only ONE true God…which JWs say that they believe, & yet their version of the Bible clearly teaches that Jesus is “a” god, or a “little god”; so if there is only ONE true God, & Jesus is a “little god,” then He must be a FALSE God.

JW Male responds

The Trinity I’m referring to is the doctrine that believes in 3 persons that make up God. You are incorrect about our teaching. We believe there are many gods, but only one ALMIGHTY God, whose name is Jehovah, who created everything.

“For Jehovah YOUR God is_____ the God of gods_____ and the Lord of lords, the God great, mighty and fear-inspiring, who treats none with partiality nor accepts a bribe.”       Deut 10:17

Jesus is not a false god, but a god. Do you understand?

I respond

Well, yes, I think you made yourself clear…you said that there is “only one Almighty God,” but then you said that Jesus is “a god.” Do you not see that what you are saying is incongruous??

IF THERE IS ONLY ONE TRUE GOD, (that’s one), and Jesus is “a god,” (that’s two), then Jesus HAS to be a FALSE GOD. You can’t have it both ways.

JW Male responds

Jesus a false God? You either didn’t read what I wrote or you don’t understand. If you were a genuine JW back then, you would understand this point. Did you not read Deut 10:17 where it says that Jehovah is the “God of gods”??

Is he a God of false gods?? Of course not. If you read your bible, you would know this. Please address that verse.

I respond

Okay. I looked up Deut. 10: 17 which lists the attributes of Jehovah God. I understand your point, but if you have the WTBS Concordance, and you looked up every attribute of Jesus, you would find almost, if not every attribute of Jehovah in Jesus, & remember Colossians 2: 9 says, “because it is in Him that all the fullness of the Divine Quality dwells bodily.” vs 6-8  says”…as you have accepted Christ…Look out…empty deception…of men…not according to the Christ.” (NWT)  That is a warning.

JW Male responds

You looked up Deut 10:17 and you understand my point?? Well then you should apologize to every JW for the “big God, little god” comments you’ve been making. You should admit you didn’t know that there are many real gods. Tell me, who saw fit that this “divine quality” dwelled in Jesus? Who gave the ok? Does a God really need permission? (Col. 1:19)

I respond

Well, I thought you brought up Deut. 10: 17 to show the qualities of Jehovah… & the “big God,” “little god” teaching was not my idea; the WTBS teaches that Jesus is a separate & CREATED being…even saying that He was an “angel,” & that only Jehovah is “Almighty,” or a Big God, & that Jesus is just basically a “servant,” an “example” for us to follow, & not OF God, and if that teaching is correct, then Heb.1: 5-6 is wrong, & Jesus IS a second, “little” god.

ONE TRUE GOD means that there is only ONE true God.

JW Male responds

I brought up Deut 10:17 to show you that in scripture there are many “gods,” real gods. This scripture supports that. This scripture should help you understand why it is possible for Jesus to be a god and not a false one.

And even though there are many REAL Gods, there is only one REAL True God, the Almighty. Even that word should help you understand that if one is Almighty, there are others not so mighty.

I respond

Sir, we weren’t talking about REAL gods, but I was trying to point out that the Bible clearly teaches that there is only one TRUE God. I can carve a “god” out of wood, but that doesn’t make that god a TRUE God, according to scripture. Again, IF there is ONLY ONE “true” God, (John 17:3), & Jesus is “a” god, then the only logical conclusion is that Jesus is a FALSE GOD.

Nowhere in Scripture does it teach that there is more than one “true God”!!

JW Male responds

Anne, you are ignoring Deut 10:17. It says that Jehovah is God of what? “God of gods,” do you see that in your bible? Is the scripture saying that Jehovah is God of “false” gods??

I respond

No, I am not ignoring Deut. 10: 17, & the Bible I use is the NWT.

It’s just that Jesus has the same attributes as does Jehovah…I am just too tired to look up the scriptures right now. That is why I asked if you had the WTBS Concordance so you could look up these attributes.

Also, please remember that Jesus is no longer a “servant,” but is in His glory, as He stated at Matt. 28:18, “All authority had been given me in heaven & on the earth.” We also know that He has been given a name above all other names…He is King.

JW Male responds

Authority had been “GIVEN.” He also was “GIVEN” a name above all other names. How can God be given anything? God gives, he does not get given to.

Please address Deut 10:17. Is Jehovah God a God of false gods?

I respond

Jesus is an a direct expression of God; His WORD,  and this Word of God is in the person of our Lord & King, Jesus.

Jesus, the Word of God, “became flesh & dwelt among us,” & IF He did not speak of His own originality, & IF He said that if His followers had seen Him, they had seen God also, this flows with the overall understanding of God as expressed in the 3 persons of God; each OF God, yet separate, as each is spoken of as independently having a personality.

JW Male responds

Are you there Anne??

I respond

Yes,!! I’m here!!!

JW Male responds, as he does not get my response

I left 2 messages, can you answer me?

I respond

Sorry!! I was on another site!! I am here!! My dog needs to go out, but I am HERE!!! (smile)

No response for a while from JW Male

I continue

I was just looking at the ministry web site that I am on which has way better…and probably much clearer answers than I can give you. I recall that when I was a faithful member of the WTBS, there was just no way that I would listen to anyone try to tell ME what God’s “truth” was!! I think the only thing anyone could have possibly said to me that I would listened to would have been, “Do you REALLY know what God’s Plan of Salvation is for mankind on the earth??” Yep!! That would have done it, all right!! (smile)

At last I hear from JW Male

Anne, I have to go to work. As soon as I get back, I hope I have some answer from you. Please read what I left you carefully. Jehovah wants you back.

I respond

I hope that you have a great and blessed day!!

The ministry site that has clear Biblical answers to just about any question that a JW might have is at 4jehovah.org

My response to JW Male’s earlier remark re: WTBS teaching of the Trinity origin

I am sorry…I did not know that the WTBS had changed their teaching on what the Trinity was.

In the Christian faith we understand the Bible’s stating that Jesus is OF God; of the same essence. We know He willingly lowered Himself to take on a slave’s form, but as He is God’s Word come in the flesh, (John 1:14), He explained that He did nothing aside from the Father: If one saw HIM, one saw God, because they are one, & God’s Holy Spirit is His essence, yet independently teaches…that’s three.

JW Male responds

ACCORDING to the trinity the Father, “the Son and the holy spirit are three persons of one godhead, co-equal, co-substantial and co-eternal.” WT 56 8/15 … I can go further…

Changed their teaching of what the Trinity was? Looks like as a JW you never really studied.

If one saw him, one saw God because he said: “…The things I say to YOU men I do not speak of my own originality; but the Father who remains in union with me is doing___ HIS___ works.” John 14:10

That’s why!

I respond

Actually, I studied the WTBS literature all the time; I was so dedicated! The WTBS absolutely DID teach that the Trinity doctrine was based upon the pagan Babylonian, three-headed god. (I was there.) And I totally get your not understanding what I said re: God, as expressed in His Word, Jesus, & the Holy Spirit.  The word “Trinity” is from “Tri-unity,” and is simply man’s best effort to understand and to name a “Triune God,” as He expresses Himself in the person’s of Himself. There’s only ONE true God.

JW Male responds

Even if they taught of a 3 headed God as pagan, that does not mean they didn’t teach about the 3 persons in 1 Godhead doctrine. That makes you a reviler or a slanderer. If you read the WTs you would know that the organization teaches about the different types of trinities. What is wrong with you??

I respond

Excuse me?? I don’t understand what you’re saying…are you saying that I said that the WTBS TAUGHT a “three-headed-god” trinity?? If so, that’s not what I meant. The WTBS taught that the Christian BELIEF in the Trinity was based on a pagan, three-headed-god. I never heard them mention any other type of trinity…I’ve been gone for many years…and Fran, I am a very honest person; I am not a liar, nor am I a “reviler,” or a “slanderer.” If I am wrong about something, I’m truly sorry.

JW Male continues his thought…

…and if you truly studied, you would understand that there are many gods, but one Almighty God. The fact that he is called Almighty God suggests that there are other not so mighty gods. We worship Jehovah only. You see, don’t tell me you studied, when your actions show me you haven’t.

I respond  (comment is out of sequence)

Oh!! Thank you SO much for bringing up that verse…I was trying to remember where it was!! You are a mind reader! Yes!! Jesus certainly did NOT “speak of His own originality,” because He is “the Word of God come in the flesh”!! (John 1: 14) That is why He tried to show us that He was the fulfillment of all the Hebrew Scriptures that pointed to His coming in fulfillment of Jehovah God’s promise to save mankind. This is why Jesus is called, “The Word of God”!!  (Revelation 19:13)

JW Male responds

I know why he is called the word of God, but you missed the point. Jesus said that if one saw him, one saw God in that sense. Because Jesus was there as Gods representative, Gods word. To do God’s will, not his own. To accomplish God’s mission, not his own. He was a tool of Gods purposes and will, not his own. In that sense when one saw Jesus one saw God.

You compared the holy Spirit as being “of God” to Jesus being “of god” and used that logic to say that Jesus is part of a Trinity. But if that were true, when one blasphemies against the holy spirit and that is unforgivable, then when one blasphemies against the Son, that should also be unforgivable, BUT IT’S NOT! Your logic is faulty.

I respond

Sir, you just can’t have it both ways…clearly, no JW, or any Christian, I am sure, would claim that Jesus is a “false God.” Jesus is OF God, begotten, or “brought forth” from God, Himself; of the same essence of God.

The Holy Spirit is truly THE SPIRIT OF GOD; His essence. That is why it is “Holy,” & why blaspheming against it is an unforgivable sin. Jehovah is ONE God, & His son is an expression of Himself…His “Word,” as John 1:1-4, 14 and Rev. 19: 13 clearly tells us. Each of these 3 is OF God.

JW Male responds

So blasphemy against the Spirit “OF God” is unforgivable, but blasphemy against Jesus, who is “OF God” is forgivable? How does that work?

Jesus definitely was “brought forth” by God, INTO existence. He was created DIRECTLY by God (Prov 8:22). I do believe he is the Word of God, which is clearly taught in scripture, but that does not make him Jehovah. Jehovah is 1 PERSON.

“For Christ entered… into heaven itself, now to appear before the PERSON of God for us.” Heb 9:24

I respond

I only remember Jesus saying that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit would not be forgiven; I only said what I have read. And Sir, John 1:1 says that “In the beginning was the Word…” In Greek, the word “was” denotes past, continuous action. In other words, in The Beginning “The Word” ALREADY WAS.

“The Beginning” is a time period, & IN that time period, “God’s Word” already WAS.

Being “brought forth” is not the same thing as being “created.” That’s WTBS teaching to lower Jesus; agreeing with the Bible that He was “brought forth” into existance, but then turning that understanding into now meaning that Jesus was “created.”  Being “brought forth” is not the same as being “created.”

I understand what you are saying in re: to Hebrew 9: 24; yes, Jesus entered before the PERSON of God. So why doesn’t the scripture just say, “before God,”? instead of saying, “before the PERSON of God”?

If Jesus is OF God…an “expression of Himself,” or, “His Word brought forth OF Him”… then it’s like a cell dividing into two…they are both the “same,” OF the “same essence,” but now there are two.

God can do anything; His ways are above our ways. You “bring forth a child”; you “create” a chair. There is no scripture that states that Jehovah “created” Jesus, but that He was brought forth, or “begotten.”  John 8:42; John 16:27-29; John 17:6

JW Male responds

“Before the person of God,” in the sense that Jesus is not before any representative or angel, but in front of the Almighty God; “person” emphasizes that there is no middle man between Jesus and Jehovah.

I respond

We see the very same words in God’s own Holy Word, but you are taught to “see” through, what I call, “Watchtower Glasses.”

It is not necessary that you understand the “how & the why” of Jehovah God’s Plan of Salvation for mankind upon the earth, only that HIS Plan, from the very beginning in Genesis, was to be through “The Seed,” or “Immanuel,” (with us is God, or God with us), & the fulfillment of all that the Hebrew Scriptures led to was in the person of Jesus.

It is through the willing sacrifice of the “ultimate pure Lamb” that bought life for all of us; that bought forgiveness of our sinful state; that bought our righteous standing before Jehovah; that bought our being now adopted by the Holy Spirit of God so that now we are not held under condemnation of fleshly sin, but that we are now seen by God in our spirit as adopted children…God’s own Holy Spirit, “the helper,” “makes His abode” in us; mingles with our own spirit, sealing our spiritual adoption, & this wonderful invitation is given to “everyone,” to “all,” “the one that,” & to “whosoever.” It’s all there. It is what the WT is hiding!         (John 14:23)

JW Male responds

Hi, Anne what is this? Why are you avoiding my question?
I’ve asked you a few times now. Are you going to answer me or not? You say you are a very honest person. An honest person that loves truth, right? Why can’t you answer my question?

According to Deut 10:17, is Jehovah a God of false gods????

I hope you answer me this time.

I respond

I don’t understand why you are so fixated upon my answering a question that is so obviously redundant, however, since it seems to be so important to you, then, no, I do not believe that Jehovah is “a God of false gods,” but why do you ask this question?

I only pointed out that the WT teaches a belief in TWO “true Gods” when they say they that they only believe in ONE…while, at the same time, their very rewording of John 1:1 makes a real problem obvious to many people.

I hope this works for you!!

JW Male responds

Anne, we have NEVER taught of  2 “true” Gods. That’s a lie. John 17:3 says that the Father is the “ONLY TRUE GOD.”

I think you know why I’m so “fixated” on that scripture. You should admit that there ARE other gods out there that are not “false gods.” Jesus is one of these; a real one, not a false one.

Therefore, your accusation about a “little god” in John 1:1 is now out the window.
Will you be honest enough to admit that?”

I respond

What you have said is exactly my point: The JWs SAY that they believe in only ONE “true” God…I know that!! But the very REWORDING the WT made of the verse at John1:1 makes it clear that they believe in TWO, which, of course, MAKES NO SENSE, and that has been my point…JWs always seem to have a terrible time with this scripture simply because it DOESN’T make sense; of course it doesn’t.

If there is only ONE “true God,” (Jehovah), but Jesus is “a” god, then He HAS to be a false God!!

Sir, I am not “accusing” anything, but only pointing out something that is obvious. Now you are saying that there ARE other gods out there that are not “false gods,” okay, but please look at the point of there being only one TRUE God… that is the entire point.

IF there is only ONE “TRUE” God, & Jesus is “a” god, then He has to be a false god….don’t worry about this one!! I remember questioning this scripture myself because it didn’t make sense to me; they just told me not to worry about it…but I still wondered…

JW Male responds

I’m not saying that there are other gods that are not false gods. It is the bible that says it.

“For Jehovah YOUR God is the God of gods…” Deut 10:17

It is this verse that should help you understand why Jesus is “a god.” Am I not getting through to you? It’s very simple.

Explain Deut 10:17. Who is Jehovah a God of ?

There is only 1 TRUE God. Our translation of John 1:1 in no way contradicts that! If it does, show me how. And please don’t ignore Deut. 10:17, in fact it would help if you demonstrated that you understand that verse.

I respond

Sir, I have already answered you in every way that I could think of. I am probably not very good at this, but it seems as if, on one hand, you say one thing, & then you go on to say something else.

It’s like my JW mom & my JW son:  They both hotly deny that they “serve the Watchtower,” but then they immediately go right into an explanation of exactly WHY they “serve the Watchtower.”  Undecided

Don’t worry about the details. It’s okay. Just read John, Galatians, Ephesians & Romans. I think it will help you a lot…

JW Male responds

Anne, your mother and son and I are not wrong. I’m asking you direct questions that you won’t answer.

1. How can the “Son” be with the “Son”? (John 1:1)
2. How does our translation teach “Two True Gods”? (John 1:1)

Lets dig, we can do it

I respond

How many times can I answer you & try to explain something that seems so simple to understand? I HAVE answered you over & over again…it’s the Watchtower training that keeps you running in circles, getting you fixated on one thing so that you cannot see the answer to the very question that you ask; and you don’t even seem to see it.  I’m sorry; I am just feeling so frustrated…

Jesus is “God’s only begotten Son,” in that He is not a “created” being, but was directly “brought forth” from God, and is OF God; an expression of Himself brought forth from the person of Himself; “His Word.”  (See Heb. 1:1-5)

JW Male responds

You see, you are not answering me Anne.  I asked you: Explain how the Word, who is the Son, can be with the Son. If the Word was with Jehovah, how can he be Jehovah? The scripture doesn’t say the Word was Jehovah, it says the Word was WITH Jehovah.

So if Jehovah is made up of 3 persons, how can the Word, who is a person, be WITH 3 persons? You need to think deeper.

I respond

The Bible says that Jesus is God’s “only begotten Son,” which means He is not a “created” being. The Bible also says that Jesus is “called The Word of God,” (Rev. 19:13), & John 1: 14 says that “the Word became flesh & dwelt among us.” Heb.1: 5-6  explains that Jesus is NOT an “angel,” but is the SON of God, & that all the angels must “do obesiance to Him.”                                .
The “Son of God” is Jesus. The “Word of God” is Jesus, & in both cases, Jesus is an “expression” of Jehovah; directly OF God. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God. All three are God…OF God…& WITH God.

JW Male responds

Anne, this is your chance to open up your mind and free yourself from the teachings of man. This is your chance to be enlightened and to serve The Father of our Lord Jesus Christ along with your mother and son. This is your chance to serve The Almighty Jehovah God. No more jokes, no more games. Let’s dissect this issue and open up your mind. See the truth!

I respond

Thank you so much for your kind thoughts, but I do not regard the Word of God as “teachings of man,” nor do I see joining the WTBS as a means of “enlightenment.” Truth is no “joke” to me, & believing “doctrines of men” as “truth” that is apt to change as the years go by is not a “game” that I wish to participate in.

My mind is no longer controlled by an outside authority that claims to be “the only channel of God,” while claiming “imperfection” when their prophecies are proven to be false, or when their “truth” needs to be “adjusted,” or when they are caught in obvious “mistakes.”

You keep saying that I am lying, but what you call “a lie” is not what I actually said.  I never said that the WTBS taught that there are “Two True Gods,” but rather, just the opposite…

The Watchtower teaches, & they say, that they believe in only ONE TRUE GOD, while their own rendering of John 1:1 makes it appear that they actually DO believe in TWO “one true Gods,” & obviously that doesn’t make any sense.

This is EXACTLY why the Watchtower’s own rendering of this key verse re: who Jesus really is is so important to understand: The very fact that this scripture does NOT make sense should make anyone “hear alarm bells” when they read it.

So WHY did the leaders of the Watchtower feel the need to change this scripture in the first place? And why do they not explain their reason to their faithful members? I think we know.

JW Male responds

Anne, we teach the The Father is the Only True God. If we are teaching “Two True God’s” by means of John 1:1, SHOW ME HOW.

I respond

Sir, I have already shown you, as plainly as I believe is humanly possible to show you, how the WTBS’ rendering of John 1:1 shows that they, by way of their rendering of John 1:1, DO believe in “two true Gods,” (even though they don’t actually TEACH it,) & since it is obvious that no JW would ever believe that Jesus is a “false god,” it is even more unbelievable that the WTBS  would render this scripture in such a way as to make it appear as if John 1:1 actually says that Jehovah and Jesus are SEPARATE GODS, when we know, of course, that if there is only ONE “True” God, this makes no sense at all. It’s the best I can do.

JW Male responds

Nowhere in John 1:1 is the phrase “True God” used. The scripture mentions “The God,” and “a god”.

“The God” (An Identity) = Jehovah
“a god” (a quality) = Jesus

You just DON’T want to see the truth in light of Deut 10:17. It’s that verse that makes our rendering of John 1:1 possible. It’s because of Deut 10:17 that human judges, Satan, angels, & Jesus can ALL be called “gods.” These gods are not as MIGHTY as the ALMIGHTY.

Jehovah is “God of gods.” Accept it.

I respond

Though your reasoning, to me, is a bit difficult to get, I think I see the point you are making.

Whether or not the words “True God” are in John 1:1 or not, you make it clear that your understanding of it is the same; namely, that “God” is speaking of “Jehovah,” & the “quality” is speaking of “Jesus,” & in that case, JESUS IS THEN A “QUALITY” OF GOD. Just like my JW mother, you seem to be also fixated on “Almighty” vs “Mighty” rather than the only “One True God” point. (John 17:3)

JW Male responds

All spirit creatures are divine beings. They are all gods. Jesus has the quality of being a god, A DIVINE CREATURE.

“and the Word was divine.” The Bible—An American Translation, by J. M. P. Smith and E. J. Goodspeed.

“and of a divine kind was the Word.” Das Neue Testament, by Ludwig Thimme.

“ton theon” (Jehovah) = The only True God.
“theos” (Jesus) = godlike

I respond

Jehovah God & His Son are not to be debated with intellect, fancy wordings, or human “reasonings” simply to support a particular religion’s view or organization’s doctrine.

I believe that Almighty God is Jehovah, The Great “I AM,” Heavenly Father, etc., & that Jehovah pointed us humans toward His Son, Jesus, to fulfill HIS Plan of Salvation for mankind on this earth.

JW Male responds

I only believe the scriptures, & if a belief isn’t “there,” I don’t feel that I have to believe it in order to be “right” with God.

One True God is different from Almighty and Mighty.

Almighty and mighty are both real in the same group, but Almighty means no limits; mighty means limits.

One True God is used to contrast Jehovah from false, made-up Gods that the nations had.

Almighty is used to contrast Jehovah from other not so mighty “spirit beings”

All spirit beings are divine creatures. They are all gods, but Jehovah is THE “God of gods”.

God of gods, what does this phrase mean to you?

I respond

You are continuing to go in circles.

Whether a “God” is “Almighty” or just “Mighty,” you are still talking about two different “God’s,” and from Isaiah 43 onward, I see many scriptures that make it plain that Jehovah God recognizes “no other God.”

Isa. 43: 11 “I-I am Jehovah & besides me there is no savior.” vs 12 “…I am God.”

Isa. 44: 6 “I am the first & I am the last, & besides me there is no God.” vs 7 “And who is there like me?” vs 8 “Does there exit a God besides me? No…”

Isa.44:24 “I, Jehovah, am doing everything …by myself…Who was with me?”

Isa.45:5 “I am Jehovah & there is no one else. With the exception of me there is no God.” vs 6 “I am Jehovah & there is no one else.” vs14 “…there is no other God.” vs18 “I am Jehovah & there is no one else.” vs21 “…there is no other God…none excepting me(?)” vs22 “I am God, & there is no one else.”

Isa. 46:9 “…I am the Divine One & there is no other God, NOT ANYONE LIKE ME.”

“Isa. 47:10 “…I am & there is nobody else.” Isa. 48:12 “…I am the first…I am the last.” Isa. 51:7 “…the one bringing the good news of something better, the one publishing salvation, the one saying to Zion: ‘Your God has become king’.” Isa.60:16 “…I, Jehovah, am your savior…”

All the scriptures cited are quoted from the Watchtower’s own NWT, & speak of only ONE God; one TRUE God, according to God’s own Word.

I believe in the Bible, & I believe in Jehovah God, & I believe in His Word, & in His only begotten Son, Jesus. (John 17:3)

JW Male responds

John 1:1 is NO problem at all if you understand Deut 10:17. Yes, the one verse you have been avoiding all this time. John 1:1 says that the word was with “ton theos” (Jehovah). Then it says that the word was “theos” (a god).  It does NOT say that the Word was “ton theos” (Jehovah).

Also, you haven’t explained to me how it is possible for the Word, who is the “Son,” to be with the God, who is Triune. In other words, how can the “Son” be with the “Son.”

Anne, are you busy? Let me know if you need some time, ok?

I respond

Kind of busy…I have my great-grandson here.

I looked up the scripture in the WTBS’ Kingdom Interlinear, & from what I can understand, the WT is saying that John 1:1 speaks of Jehovah God & the “attribute” of His Word, but in John 1: 14 we read, “And The Word became flesh…”

It doesn’t make sense that God’s “attribute” would “become flesh,” unless that “attribute” is God’s Word, so I understand that The Word of Almighty God, Jehovah, came to us “in the flesh” as His direct representative; to teach us & to set us free from having to live under LAW, & to set us free from the condemnation of sin & death…”

JW Male responds

So now you’re saying that simply because Jesus is given the title “The Word of God,” then he must be God? The bible is called “The Word of God.”  Is the bible itself God? Or is it his message?

In scripture we find that an angel that spoke to Abraham was called “Jehovah.” Why? Because this angel was Jehovah’s messenger. Was this ANGEL Jehovah?

I respond

I don’t know what the WT says about this account, but at Genesis 17:1 it clearly says, “…then Jehovah appeared to Abram & said to him: ‘I am God Almighty’.”

Genesis 18:1 says, “…Jehovah appeared to him among the big trees.”

vs. 3-4, “…Jehovah…do not pass by your servant…you must have your feet washed.”

vs.22, “At this point the men turned from there…but as for Jehovah, He was still standing before Abraham.”

vs.33, “Then Jehovah went His way when He had finished speaking to Abraham…”

These verses make a clear distinction between Jehovah & the angels that were with Him. Can we not just believe what the scriptures here actually say, & not have the WTBS explain the obvious away??

JW Male responds

Are you saying that the one that spoke to Abraham was The Almighty God? That Abraham actually “saw” God?

Is that what you’re saying?

I respond

Yes, that is what I believe that I just read in the NWT; just look at the verses for yourself. It is there; it’s all there in you own Watchtower Bible.

And Jesus said at John 17:17, I believe, that “your Word is truth.” And Jesus said at John 14: 6 that HE is “The Truth,” and since He IS “The Word of God,” come “in the flesh,” I understand these scriptures to mean just that.

Jesus is the ONLY begotten Son of God…all others are “created” beings. Please don’t worry about it. Trust in Jehovah!!

Also, regarding blasphemy against the Holy Spirit: it is Luke 12:10 that says that re: the Holy Spirit.

Re: Proverbs 8:22: Nowhere does this scripture say that Jehovah “created” Jesus.

Reading further back to the beginning of Proverbs 8, you will see that it is “Wisdom” that is being talked about, though at verse 22 it appears to be Jesus speaking. Wisdom (of Jehovah) is also personified as having a personality, as being a woman; some even applying a name, “Sophia,” to Jehovah’s Wisdom. Nevertheless, there is NOWHERE in Scripture that says that Jesus was ever “created.”

JW Male responds

If you decided to put on a false front so that you would not receive any help because of your being “weak,” speak for yourself. Although not perfect, you know the elders were trying to keep the congregation clean from your dirty deeds. In fact, you know very well that they even tried to help you. But because of your pride and negative attitude, you either left or got kicked out.

I respond

Wow. Where is all of your anger and vehemence coming from?? I think I have been very clear here in saying that I am very thankful that I live in freedom…to be free from the spiritual tyranny of man, religion, and organization, & that I am now free to believe what God’s Word actually says, & to not feel that I have to obediently “‘swallow” some religion’s “interpretation” of it. I am grateful for my life now, & I truly am only here to help, if I can, & I WILL help anyone who asks for help; I just do my best, the best that I can.  I don’t mean to upset anyone.

JW Male responds

Anger? LOL  I’m sorry you got that impression. It’s the truth, and the truth hurts, so it might sound like that way to you. I laid down the truth and you decided to see it with a negative view. Kind of like what you did with the elders. It’s not anger; you know I’m right.

Don’t forget that the atheists call themselves “free thinkers.” Just because you think you’re free, it does not mean you’re free. I asked you for the name of your God, and yet I have to ask you again. Where’s the help?

I respond

I’m sorry, I just get really tired sometimes. I said that I am now free to be guided by God’s Holy Spirit; & as Paul warned us all in Galatians, we should not allow ourselves to be enslaved by “man.”  (Galatians 1:6-8;  2:4,5)

My God is Jehovah, Father God, Father, or Almighty God. I offer help to those with specific questions, such as re: the fear of Armageddon, or whatever questions one may have.

Sometimes JWs write to accuse me of being a liar, or to call me an evil person, but that’s okay. I understand that it’s just their Watchtower training talking…

Sir, you really don’t know what happened to me, so I would appreciate it if, before you judge me, that you at least ask questions before you jump to conclusions.

I have met many very loving & kind elders, & some who were not so kind. I was not “negative” or “prideful” or “weak,” & I was not guilty of any “dirty deed,” but instead was attacked by my good friend’s husband. I was a single, young mother of five, & I was told by the “loving elders” that I was “a disgrace to the congregation” & to “the name of the ‘good’ sisters of the congregation.”  They didn’t try to “help” me, but instead kept asking horrible questions, breaking me down & making me cry; as if I didn’t feel awful enough.

JW Male responds

Why were you “attacked” and called a “disgrace to the congregation”? If you have met loving elders, then I hope that next time you won’t generalize the elders and my brothers and sisters. You said you had to put on a theocratic face so as to not seem weak. That only makes sense if you were “weak.” The brothers are there to help, and not to grill you like you said. That’s why I said you see things negatively.

Oh, and also, what bible version do you use?

I respond

I actually learned “The (real) Truth” from the Watchtower’s own version of the Bible, The NWT…the big, brown 1984 edition.

It was all the footnotes in this Bible that really showed me “the truth,” & I was quite surprised to see for myself that many scriptures really had been altered to change their actual meaning!

I figured that someone on the translation committee must have been trying to get the REAL truth out there to the rank-and-file. SO many JWs at Bethel were kicked out during that terrible time due to what they had discovered in their private studies of the Bible during the late ’70s & the early ’80s, but they did manage to get that version out to the flock in time.

The Watchtower’s 1984 large brown Bible is an invaluable tool for any Jehovah’s Witness who may be searching for answers…

JW Male responds

So you won’t tell me what sect you belong to, eh? And you still use a NWT, eh?

Tell me, what is the name of your God?

I respond

Sorry; I didn’t realize you asked “what sect” I belonged to. I am just a Christian.

Jesus said at John 8: 32-36 that IF we remain in His teaching, THEN we are truly His disciples, and THEN we would “know the truth,” and THEN we would be free…& I believe Him.

Remember that Jehovah God has made clear that He has a plan for the salvation of EVERYONE, & it is all in the scriptures.

I use the NWT so that JWs can see God’s Truth in the Bible they believe to be most “true.”

My God is the God of the Bible; same as yours.

JW Male responds

There are many who claim to be Christians as you know, and there are those that believe in speaking in tongues, there are those that don’t, there are those that hold to Mosaic Law, there are those that don’t. Which type are you?

I respond

I don’t think I am a “type,” I have only accepted that I can never EARN my righteous standing in front of God, or ever EARN forgiveness of my sins through “works,” nor can I EARN (the “hope” of) everlasting life…

I simply obeyed Jesus’ words at Matt. 11: 28, “Come to me…” & I finally have peace, & I no longer live in fear of “falling short,” or of being “destroyed” because I am not “good enough.” Just like the eunuch that Philip explained God’s Plan of Salvation to, I “rejoiced,” because the “load” that had I carried for so very long was lifted. I just follow Christ…

Again, as Jesus says so clearly at John 8: 32-36, IF we remain in HIS teaching, THEN we are His disciples, & THEN we will know the truth, & THEN we will be free.  And I have found this to be true!

At John 12: 40 Jesus says that Satan “has blinded their eyes…that they should not see with their eyes & get the thought with their hearts & turn around & I should heal them.” v.46 “…everyone putting faith in me may not remain in darkness.”

Christians can only try their best to follow Christ. No one is perfect yet! (smile)

God’s truth is all there in the Scriptures…Jesus says in frustration to those of Jehovah’s Organization of His day at John 5: 39-40:

“You are searching the Scriptures because you think that by means of them you will have everlasting life; and these are the very ones that bear witness about me. And yet you do not want to COME TO ME that you may have life.”

Watchtower way? or Jehovah God’s way?

We each have a choice to either accept God’s plan, or the Watchtower’s. Many have made a heartfelt choice…

JW Male responds

My brothers base their teaching on the teachings of Jesus Christ, whose words are recorded in the scriptures. The scriptures that we live by. What are you talking about?

I respond

What I am talking about is the very thing that Jesus warned us about at Matt. 15:8-9:

“This people honors me with their lips, yet their heart is far removed from me. It is in vain that they keep worshiping me, because they teach commands of men as doctrines.”

2 Cor. 13: 5 says to “keep testing whether you are in the (Christian) faith.”

Paul says at Gal. 1: 6-12, “…only there are certain ones causing you trouble & wanting to pervert the Good News about the Christ…” Please read Galatians.

Responding back to JW Female

As I have said, I understand your beliefs & your feelings completely, & I am not trying to upset you; I am only answering you the best I can from the Bible, my personal “spiritual authority” that I most believe, & as we are now past the times of the Hebrew Scriptures, & are now to follow Christ, as per Acts 1:8, & as per Jehovah God’s plan according to Scripture, I feel comfortable in believing that.

Many in Jesus’ day were afraid to leave the “organization” (the Jewish Religion) in order to follow Him for fear of being cast out, or “disfellowshipped. (John 12: 42-43)

JW Female responds

When you “follow” Christ, you do the things that he did. And what was he here to do? To offer himself as a ransom for our sins & to preach the good news of the kingdom. And what did he also tell his disciples? I have made your name known “And will make it known.”

When you come across it again in  the Bible, you will realize that God’s name being known in the whole world is the most important part of his will. People pray for it all the time and don’t realize it. “Lords Prayer.”

You left a little too soon. You are looking at the errors and various problems amongst imperfect people; No matter “A Faithful Slave” or not; You should have been looking at the effects worldwide. There never was before Jesus time, during Jesus time, or after Jesus time, a religion that the whole world would embrace. You do read of a brotherhood that was to spread throughout the entire world with a message of a Kingdom that will bring lasting Peace. Who does that today?

I respond to JW Female

It is the Holy Bible that teaches of God’s Kingdom being reestablished upon the earth. Just because a religion uses God’s Word of Truth, it doesn’t mean that they actually teach PURE truth, or that they don’t twist God’s truth to fit their own agenda; otherwise, they wouldn’t have so much to hide from their own members.

The best place to hide lies is to cleverly wrap them up in truth, & for an organization to tell their members NOT to “think for themselves” in regard to understanding Biblical truth is frightening.

Christians all over the earth are imperfect, too, but they are FREE…free to be led by God’s Holy Spirit, & free to not become enslaved under the “spiritual tyranny” or “bondage of man.” (John 8:12,31-36; 1John 2:26-27)

Great point, but the early Christian congregation was not the WTBS, no, but were followers of Jesus; Jehovah God’s Son; not an “organization of man,” but those who were followers of Jesus. He says that we are to “come to Him.” (Matt. 11:28-30; John 5:39-40; John :8:12; John 10:26-27; John 11:26)

Jesus also said, “Everyone that is on the side of the truth listens to my voice.” (John 18:37)

Why does the WTBS tell JWs that God’s plan of GRACE is not for them? WHY?

They know why.

(At this point there is no further response from either JW)

Anne Marie

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Author: Anne Marie